The very first thing you discover is how completely different he appears. His hair is chestnut brown. He seems well mannered and reserved, nothing just like the imposing, usually divisive determine we see in the present day. He isn’t even the largest voice within the room.

It was the reasonably surreal day in winter 1991 when Donald Trump — the person bidding to win a second time period as U.S. president in every week’s time — was the particular visitor on the UK soccer TV present Saint & Greavsie.

He was there to assist with the draw for the League Cup, England’s secondary home knockout match, and a three-minute clip on YouTube preserves the event. Filmed from the boardroom on the prime of Manhattan’s 58-storey Trump Tower, there is just one man dominating the room.

“That is some pad you’ve obtained right here,” Jimmy Greaves, the previous England worldwide and one of many nation’s biggest goalscorers, says to his host. “That is lovely – I haven’t seen a boardroom like this since I used to be in Doug Ellis’ at Aston Villa.”

Trump rocks with laughter. Maybe he knew that Ellis was the chairman of Villa? Or maybe not.

David Dent, the fourth particular person behind that polished desk, can reply that query on Trump’s behalf three a long time on. “I believe he wouldn’t have had a clue who Jimmy was speaking about,” he tells The Athletic.

In 1991, Dent was the secretary of the Soccer League. As such, he usually presided over the League Cup draw — by no means earlier than, although, exterior England.

“That season, the draw for every spherical was made on the Saint & Greavsie present,” he explains. “However on that exact Saturday, the present was recorded in New York as a result of ITV (the channel which broadcast Saint & Greavsie) have been additionally filming the draw for the 1994 World Cup.

“So ITV got here to me and mentioned, ‘We are able to’t cowl the League Cup draw except you might be in New York. Do you fancy that?’ They footed the invoice and, with two nights on the Waldorf Astoria and flying Virgin Atlantic, it didn’t take quite a lot of persuasion.”

One transatlantic flight later, Dent was in New York with Greaves and Ian St John, the previous Liverpool and Scotland participant. Their double act — St John was the straight man to Greaves’ comedian flip — used to drag in tv audiences of just about six million viewers on Saturday lunchtimes.

“I bear in mind the intro to this specific present,” says Dent. “ITV filmed a sequence that began with us strolling down Fifth Avenue. Once we obtained to Trump Tower, Ian St John seemed up on the constructing and mentioned, ‘I ponder if Donald Trump is in in the present day and whether or not he’d allow us to do the draw right here’. Greavsie’s response was, ‘Nicely, we’ll by no means know except we ask’.

“The subsequent shot was them knocking on the entrance door of Trump Tower. And the subsequent factor you understand, we have been all sitting within the boardroom. We had no clue we have been speaking to the longer term president of the US.”

GO DEEPER

Jimmy Greaves: The man, magic and memories of ‘the greatest goalscorer’

What the TV footage didn’t reveal was the stroke of fine fortune that concerned Trump’s secretary, who was English, recognising the present’s hosts within the foyer and going over for a chat.

When she discovered why they have been there, she requested in the event that they wish to meet her boss and that was when the present’s producer, Bob Persistence, determined to likelihood his arm by asking if Trump would participate within the draw.

“Abruptly, we have been being whisked to the highest of Trump Tower,” says Dent. “The very first thing that struck you was the opulence. There was gold all over the place. Even the lifts have been sparkly and glitzy. The carry attendant pressed the quantity and, no sooner had he pressed the button, we had gone up 50-odd flooring. I don’t know what pace the carry was, however I’d by no means identified something prefer it.”

Donald Trump and his then-fiancee Marla Maples in 1991 (Timothy A. Clary/AFP by way of Getty Photos)

The ambiance within the boardroom was mild and jovial and, from Trump’s standpoint, perhaps a bit bewildering. It was apparent the tycoon, then 45, had no actual concept what was happening. But he smiled again from beneath his trademark back-combed hair.

Watch the footage again and he appears so completely different to the person we see in the present day, now 78 and ready to seek out out if he’s being re-elected as president. He wore a darkish go well with with a navy tie and appeared blissful to let his company do a lot of the speaking.

“He was well mannered and welcoming,” says Dent. “I’m undecided he totally understood why we have been there, although. He didn’t know what the draw for a cup competitors meant or what the importance of pulling a ball out of a bag was.

“However he made us really feel comfy. We obtained on properly and he was a unique particular person to the one we see now. All of the publicity and fame has modified him utterly from how he was again then, when he was only a New York businessman.”

The competitors was identified on the time because the Rumbelows Cup, due to a sponsorship take care of {an electrical} retailer that went out of enterprise a couple of years later. Trump’s job was to drag out the away groups for the quarter-finals. Greaves was accountable for drawing the house groups. The top outcome was just a little piece of tv gold.

Greaves went first, sticking his hand right into a inexperienced velvet bag to drag out ball No 4: Tottenham Hotspur.

Good one, Jimmy — a house draw for his outdated membership.

Dent handed the bag to Trump. Ball No 7: Norwich City.

It was a strong but unspectacular begin.

If Trump was confused by the subsequent tie, he hid it properly: Swindon City or Crystal Palace versus Nottingham Forest or Southampton.

Again to Greaves: No 2 — Peterborough United.

Over to you, Donald: No 1 — Middlesbrough.

It was the fourth, and closing, tie when Leeds have been drawn at dwelling and the one remaining ball belonged to Manchester United, pitching collectively two fierce rivals who have been competing for the First Division title on the time.

(For the document, Alex Ferguson’s crew received 3-1 at Elland Street, knocked out Middlesbrough within the semi-finals and beat Forest at Wembley… however Leeds received the league.)

The draw prompted a theatrical gasp of “Ohhh, Donald!” in St John’s Scottish accent, simply out of view. And that was the second Greaves leant in direction of Trump. “You don’t realise what you’ve finished,” he advised him.

“That’s a biggie,” Trump replied, maybe sensing one thing thrilling had simply occurred. “That appears like the sport I need to go to.”

Gary Velocity scored for Leeds towards Manchester United within the 1991-92 League Cup, however his facet have been crushed (John Giles/PA Photos by way of Getty Photos)

With the draw accomplished, there was time for a little bit of small discuss. “I inform you what, Donald, are you considering of opening a retailer in England?” Greaves needed to know.

“Nicely, I believe we’re going to go over there and watch a few these video games,” Trump replied, in what might be described solely as an almighty fib.

“Take my recommendation,” mentioned Greaves. “You possibly can open one in Leeds, however don’t go to Manchester!”

By now, Greaves was on a roll. He additionally took it upon himself to ask Trump if he had ever performed soccer earlier than. “I used to play,” got here the reply. “We name it soccer right here. It’s an important recreation, I really like soccer, I performed truly in highschool.”

What did Trump make of the 1994 World Cup being held there?

“It will likely be attention-grabbing to see the way it catches on. If you take a look at England and different international locations, it’s so massive, so extremely massive. However in the US, it hadn’t actually caught on till now. It’s beginning. The truth is, I see the US ladies received the World Cup for ladies, which is admittedly nice.”

Greaves and St John each died in 2021, however Dent, now in his 80s, lives in Lytham St Annes, Lancashire, the place the Soccer League had its headquarters for a few years. And you need to wonder if Trump realised he was sharing his boardroom with a future president — in 2010, Dent was made honorary president of Carlisle United, 50 years after turning into their first-ever full-time secretary.

Ian St John and Jimmy Greaves of their pomp in 1990 (Steve Etherington/EMPICS by way of Getty Photos)

“Leeds United versus Manchester United, to Donald Trump, wouldn’t have meant a single factor,” says Dent. “He wouldn’t have had a clue. But it surely made for a very good story and, on the finish of the draw, I at all times bear in mind Jimmy presenting Trump with a Saint & Greavsie mug.”

It’s true. The ultimate flourish concerned Greaves, grinning with delight, pulling out a memento reward from behind his chair.

“That is essentially the most prestigious award in footballing historical past,” he advised the longer term president. “If you pour your sizzling espresso in it, it’s obtained ‘It’s a Humorous Previous Sport’ (Greaves’ catchphrase) on the facet. President Bush or Frank Sinatra haven’t obtained a type of.”

“I’ll inform them that,” Trump replied. “Good luck with the video games.”

A humorous outdated recreation, certainly.

“That mug wouldn’t have price something,” says Dent, and he’s laughing now. “Jimmy made it sound like some of the prestigious issues you might ever obtain. But I doubt Donald Trump has nonetheless obtained it.”

(Prime photograph: ITV Information)