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Within the thirteenth arrondissement of the French capital Paris is an outdated rail freight station that has been transformed into the world’s greatest startup campus.
Referred to as Station F, the huge advanced, which may home 1,000 startups and has company companions together with U.S. tech giants like Meta and Google, underscores France’s push over the previous few years to reinvent itself as one of many world’s main tech hubs.
Within the second episode of our European tech hubs mini-series for CNBC Tech’s “Beyond the Valley” — which you’ll hearken to above — Tom Chitty and I travelled to Station F to speak to its director Roxanne Varza concerning the development of the French tech scene over the previous few years.
In 2015, taxi drivers in France protested the rise of Uber and startup founders complained concerning the nation’s burdensome labor legal guidelines that made it troublesome for younger tech companies to be nimble. From the surface, France had a reputation of being anti-tech and innovation.
However varied governments over time have championed the nation’s expertise ecosystem to push packages like Station F and reforms to legal guidelines to assist out startups. And with the tech world at the moment present process a increase in synthetic intelligence, France is looking to position itself as a leading hub.
French generative AI firms have raised $2.29 billion up to now, in keeping with knowledge from Accel and Dealroom, essentially the most of any European nation. This has been pushed by huge investments in buzzy French AI startups such as Mistral AI and H.
“France is the chief on synthetic intelligence in Europe,” Bruno Le Maire, France’s finance minister, instructed me on the nation’s excessive profile occasion Viva Tech final month.
If in case you have any ideas on this or earlier episodes, please electronic mail us at beyondthevalley@cnbc.com.
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Here’s a transcript of the “Past the Valley” episode launched on June 20, 2024. It has been edited for readability and brevity.
Tom Chitty
The thirteenth Arrondissement in Paris is residence to a thriving nightlife scene and the town’s principal Asian neighborhood. When you like Chinese language or Vietnamese meals, then you definitely’ll be glad right here. It additionally occurs to be residence to Station F, the world’s largest startup campus. Brimming with entrepreneurs and round 1,000 startup firms, it embodies France’s thrilling tech business. Within the second installment of our take a look at Europe’s main tech hubs, we’re in Paris to talk to the top of Station F about how the nation disregarded its status as being anti-tech, the success of its AI firms, and the political and regulatory challenges it might face. Arjun, have you ever been to Station F earlier than?
Arjun Kharpal
That is my first time. I have been wanting to go to for thus a few years. So fairly excited to be right here. It is superb.
Tom Chitty
To explain to our listeners shortly what it is like. It’s a little bit of an oasis. It appears to be like like an enormous plane hangar. And there is all these kind of transport containers which function kind of assembly rooms [which are] glass fronted so you possibly can type of see in them. Anyway, that is what it appears to be like like visually, however to know what truly goes on right here, with the work that occurs and the businesses which might be situated right here, we have to converse to the Director of Station F, Roxanne Varza. Thanks for becoming a member of us on Past the Valley, Roxanne.
Roxanne Varza
Thanks a lot for having me.
Tom Chitty
First off, give us a little bit of a backstory of this place. What is the goal of it? And the way did it begin?
Roxanne Varza
So we opened in 2017 and it was proper after President Macron had been elected for his first presidency. And basically, the thought had type of come about just a few years earlier than. Clearly, we would been noticing that, particularly from overseas, when individuals would take a look at the European ecosystem, they might know London and London has all these firms that everybody is aware of, and all of the funds are primarily based there. Folks truly knew so much about Berlin. I believe a few firms fairly well-known had been primarily based there as effectively. And France was simply type of not on anybody’s radar, although there was truly so much occurring. So the thought behind Station F was let’s make this sort of massive emblematic area, deliver everybody to the ecosystem collectively, actually facilitate launching a enterprise as a result of that basically type of felt just like the hurdle was getting individuals up and working. And in order that’s basically what we have been doing.
Tom Chitty
Let’s discover out just a little bit about your self, as a result of I do know that in some French media, you will have been known as the queen of tech amongst different titles, all very optimistic. Nicely, I am going to allow you to resolve that. However you are additionally scout investor for Sequoia Capital, which we would like to speak just a little bit about. However what makes you the correct particular person to be director right here? How did you get chosen for that position?
Roxanne Varza
So many individuals ask me this, and I want I knew what was occurring in our founder’s head when he picked me. I grew up within the U.S. in Silicon Valley. I used to be born and raised in Palo Alto. I moved out to Europe about 15 years in the past, on the time, it was to do a grasp’s diploma and I simply fell in love with this ecosystem. Having come from the Bay Space, it felt like so many issues existed over there. And right here, there was a lot alternative to construct and to have an effect. So what makes me the correct particular person for this position? In all probability, I might say perhaps simply my connection to the startup ecosystem, the worldwide startup ecosystem. I believe, additionally, when you take a look at perhaps individuals who do not know, our founder, his identify is Xavier Niel, and he is acquired a giant telecoms firm in France and he is launched so many tasks which have simply powered this ecosystem. However when you take a look at the opposite tasks that he is finished, he tends to gravitate in direction of individuals that will be what he calls much less formatted, younger and perhaps not too influenced by a big company profession. And that was very a lot my case after I got here into this position. And perhaps additionally the truth that [to] have a little bit of a world feminine profile is a bit interesting for at present’s ecosystem that should type of contemplate range.
Tom Chitty
Now, earlier than we get again to it, we have now, after all acquired to do stat of the week. Have you ever heard about stat of the week?
Roxanne Varza
I’ve not. Ought to I be nervous?
Tom Chitty
Very a lot, I get nervous each week to play it. It is a recreation we play, the place Arjun has a stat, which he is considered extensively within the lead as much as this episode, and it refers to what we’ll be speaking about. However he’ll simply give us a stat and also you and I are going to go head-to-head. And whoever will get it proper or closest to what it refers to, then we win. However I do have a fast query, which I’ve requested all of our friends on this mini sequence that we have finished. So when you might rank Europe’s tech hubs, what could be your high three?
Roxanne Varza
That is nearly imply. I imply, I lived in each Paris and London and I really feel like these are not any brainers. So can I begin with these two? The third one, I believe is definitely actually onerous. So yearly in the summertime, I take my total crew to a brand new ecosystem. We have been to Amsterdam, we went to Berlin. This yr, we’ll Lisbon. And I really feel like I do not know sufficient hubs to essentially have a good viewpoint. However I am actually enthusiastic about Lisbon truly, I do know the Mayor of Lisbon fairly effectively, have been listening to actually optimistic issues. And I really feel like we have additionally acquired a really fascinating French entrepreneur expat neighborhood that is rising there. In order that’s an ecosystem. I am fairly enthusiastic about.
Tom Chitty
Okay, however simply to push you, which might be primary?
Roxanne Varza
Paris, what do you imply, you are pushing me?
Tom Chitty
Arjun, I am going to allow you to take it away.
Arjun Kharpal
Stat of the week. $2.29 billion {dollars}.
Tom Chitty
Arjun, you had a query.
Arjun Kharpal
I wished to begin with the kind of idea of Station F as a result of we at all times speak about these ecosystems round Europe. And, you realize, when you go to London, historically, it was kind of the East Finish of London round Outdated Road roundabout that had these hubs, Shoreditch and kind of expanded. However there have been these kind of pockets in lots of cities, the place these startups, traders maybe gathered. Is the thought nearly to only create this single large hub the place you need not have these type of disparate elements of cities. I do know, they’re single cities, however a few of them are nonetheless massive one finish to the opposite, can take a little bit of time. So is that basically the thought behind Station F?
Roxanne Varza
You already know, I believe on the time, that was the thought, as a result of we thought that is so massive, 1,000 firms, that is going to be the entire ecosystem. However truly, what we have seen is that even at present, Station F is admittedly not even that massive anymore, given how massive the entire ecosystem is. So we’re actually I believe, when it comes to early stage and getting began, that is the place you come. After which there’s completely different pockets, as you mentioned, for type of later stage and development stage firms inside Paris.
Arjun Kharpal
And Roxanne, what yr did you’re taking? 2017?
Roxanne Varza
Was the launch in the summertime.
Arjun Kharpal
And is that once you took over the position right here?
Roxanne Varza
I began two years earlier than.
Arjun Kharpal
I believe we’re on so a few years now, I believe so many issues have modified. I keep in mind kind of visiting Paris on the time, and there have been protests from the taxi drivers round Uber. And, you realize, many had from the surface checked out that and mentioned, effectively, that is simply underscores at this level France’s broader kind of antithesis to expertise and alter and innovation. What’s modified since then, in France and Paris specifically, round expertise?
Roxanne Varza
I imply, a lot has modified. It feels actually like 180 diploma flip. Once we began Station F, it was extra like nearly a working joke. Are there actually 1,000 firms in France to fill this area? Like are you guys even certain about what you are doing? Whereas at present, persons are taking a look at this ecosystem and going is that the main ecosystem in Europe? Is all people constructing an AI firm in Paris? Which I simply suppose is simply not one thing that we might have imagined so way back. So quite a lot of issues have modified. I’ve to say the federal government has undoubtedly performed a really lively position. They usually have identified which steps to take and taking the correct ones, as a result of authorities also can generally overstep and attempt to do issues that does not essentially make sense for the federal government to do. After which I additionally simply suppose culturally, we have actually been by way of an enormous transformation, I believe, perhaps partly powered by Station F. However we’re not the one gamers in that area. And it type of made entrepreneurship cool. It made it potential for lots of people that simply had been nearly ashamed to inform their households, I did this diploma, and now I will begin a enterprise.
Arjun Kharpal
And so what would you say are a number of the core strengths in the meanwhile of the of the French expertise scene? I do know, the college type of path has been fairly sturdy with a few of these technical universities. There’s additionally I suppose, individuals having been skilled in a number of the massive U.S. tech giants as effectively. The place are the core strengths?
Roxanne Varza
I might say like when it comes to infrastructure, we’re up there with any main tech ecosystem, I imply, locations like Station F, we have now all of the college packages you may want, all of the sources that you realize, tangible sources to construct an organization. I believe the expertise is the piece that we have type of cracked just a little bit over these previous couple of years with worldwide expertise now coming right here. The French authorities made the visas so much simpler to come up with. And we’re additionally simply seeing, I believe, with the worldwide perhaps geopolitical shift, persons are wanting much less in direction of the U.S. perhaps much less in direction of conventional ecosystems, and now coming right here. So I believe that has performed undoubtedly an enormous position. After which when it comes to funding, it was once not possible to get the tier one funds in your cap desk being primarily based in Paris. Now they’re right here each week.
Tom Chitty
And by the identical token, the problem is that France, Paris, Station F has, are they the identical as any European tech hub? Or are there any specific ones that you’ve got discovered right here?
Roxanne Varza
Nicely, I do suppose I imply, it is not an English talking market. So I believe when you evaluate working in Paris to working with London, I believe, people who find themselves wanting, for instance, for bilingual faculties, or for medical doctors, that will be very comfy in English, like, there’s simply little issues like that, that I nonetheless suppose are perhaps nonetheless not the place they may very well be. However in any other case, if we take a look at simply the ecosystem, and from a enterprise perspective, I believe working right here is nearly as good as another ecosystem if not higher.
Arjun Kharpal
I keep in mind one of many complaints just a few years in the past, had been issues like labor legal guidelines, the startup founders had been actually type of not glad, they had been too inflexible, too strict. Have a few of these kind of teething points within the early phases of founding startups in France modified in any respect?
Roxanne Varza
100%. I might say the labor regulation, when individuals deliver that up now, I nearly really feel like, okay, you have not caught on top of things with the place we’re at present. There’s undoubtedly quite a lot of methods to get across the hurdles. I imply, you possibly can’t evaluate, clearly, what we have now in France with what occurs, for instance, within the U.S. with how simple it’s to rent and hearth. They’re simply completely different markets. However it’s not creating the headlines that we had been seeing 10 years in the past of, you realize, not possible to fireside the groups and issues like that.
Tom Chitty
Once we speak concerning the U.S, clearly, quite a lot of the European markets are at all times going through the problem of U.S. massive tech, you realize, eager to get into these markets and, you realize, flex their muscle tissue, if you’ll. How a lot do you are worried about that? Is that one thing that retains you up at evening?
Roxanne Varza
Massive tech coming right here?
Tom Chitty
U.S. Massive Tech.
Roxanne Varza
By no means, as a result of they’re all Station F companions. You may see their logos behind me. I believe that is an ecosystem that wishes to work with worldwide leaders. In the event that they be French, in the event that they be Chinese language, in the event that they be from the U.S., you realize, whoever they’re, I believe the entrepreneurs right here need to work with these firms. And the entire U.S. leaders are current and have been current for a very long time.
Arjun Kharpal
It is a good probability, I believe, then to speak about synthetic intelligence, very troublesome to have a dialog today in tech with out speaking about that buzzword. However you realize, France, for certain has been within the headlines with firms like Mistral and H and all of those completely different firms as effectively elevating very massive sums of cash, as effectively. Look, Europe simply extra broadly, misplaced out, as an example within the web age to the massive U.S. tech giants when it got here to social media, search, all of these sorts of issues. What sort of alternatives does the increase in AI we’re seeing current for French firms and for European firms extra broadly, to compete on the worldwide stage?
Roxanne Varza
I believe you are completely proper. I imply, you simply put your finger on it. So I believe there was this sense of we missed out from type of that first technology of the web basically. Despite the fact that there have been many glorious firms that had been constructed right here, they simply did not compete on the identical degree. And I believe at present there’s a little bit of this race to be aggressive on that degree. And once we had Mistral’s mega first spherical, everybody thought OK, that is fantastic, however it’s one spherical, it is one firm. And at present we have had Poolside who’s additionally, you realize, come over from the U.S. We simply H. And now persons are beginning to surprise, is that this a pattern? Is that this one thing we are able to truly actually construct into our ecosystem long run? And I believe the reply is probably, sure.
Arjun Kharpal
I believe to Tom’s level, although, as effectively, concerning the kind of affect of the U.S. tech giants. One of many fascinating issues has been how concerned they have been very early on in these firms, the likes of Mistral getting backing from Microsoft and a number of the different massive tech giants. I keep in mind I used to be at Viva Tech only a few weeks in the past, French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire was there and I requested him, are you involved even nonetheless concerning the affect probably, as Europe tries to essentially develop its homegrown expertise firms within the on the planet of AI concerning the position of the U.S. tech giants. And I believe his was considered one of there must be a balanced, we’re glad to kind of have them right here. However we additionally have to champion our personal homegrown. Once more, we’re nonetheless very early stage, however as you see this creating, how is that steadiness wanted to be struck?
Roxanne Varza
It is fascinating as a result of right here we’re speaking about international locations and nearly there is a degree of sovereignty that is most likely concerned in that dialogue. However I additionally suppose simply from, we could say that everyone needs to crew up with a few of these massive gamers, we additionally need to keep away from having them have a lot energy that they’ll dictate tomorrow’s improvements. And so I believe these are most likely subjects, I imply, France would be the subsequent nation that can host the following AI summit in February of 2025, and I believe these are going to be very, very key subjects. However I do suppose there is a very clear sovereignty angle that must be a priority for a lot of governments.
Tom Chitty
Once we speak about governments and international locations, France is going through an upcoming election. Are you involved about the place you is likely to be in six months time,
Roxanne Varza
I imply, very, very clearly, so much might change. I believe extra will change when we have now the following presidential election. So clearly, my thoughts was there. However we might see issues change forward of time. I do not suppose they will be as dramatic, hopefully, I imply, it might go right down to not having a minister for digital. I imply issues like that would simply be fully deprioritized, which is basically what has been serving to us transfer issues ahead in France. So issues might change very dramatically. However lots of people are fairly assured that that won’t change, it’s going to perhaps be extra on a coverage degree. And it might take extra months and weeks to see the motion. So I imply, I’ve to say we’re making an attempt to be as optimistic as we are able to.
Arjun Kharpal
One of many issues I learn was that if there may be, you realize, this kind of resurgence of the far proper, and there is a adverse affect on issues like immigration coverage, that would have an effect on entry to expertise from overseas, proper?
Roxanne Varza
100%. I imply the true problem is when you look on each excessive sides of the spectrum, they ship not nice messages to international expertise, to international traders. So I believe these are the dangers. However there’s additionally individuals who really feel that perhaps it’s going to go so poorly that within the subsequent upcoming election, issues will return to the place they need to be. So there could also be a silver lining in each instances. However sure, I do suppose within the case that we have now each excessive sides, one or the opposite win, it won’t be nearly as good as we’re at present. It’s extremely clear.
Arjun Kharpal
You talked about the push from the French authorities, notably below Macron, and his authorities to spice up the French tech scene as effectively. Once more, one other kind of status Europe extra broadly has had is considered one of regulation over innovation. And to some extent, that also reigns. We noticed the massive EU AI Act move as effectively. However it appears like President Macron specifically has tried to deliver the narrative again to, no, we are able to innovate, however we additionally do want to control as effectively. Underneath Macron what have been for you the massive positives which have come out of his presidency and tech push extra broadly.
Roxanne Varza
Oh, wow, there’s been so many. I’ll say that I believe he is finished so much for worldwide visas. The visa scheme was overhauled, I believe it was the identical yr that we launched Station F and we noticed the affect instantly. Late stage funding, I imply, the funding panorama has simply remodeled. Earlier than we used to really feel like there is no early stage funding, and there is no late stage funding. And at present, I simply really feel prefer it’s all of the gaps have been crammed.
Arjun Kharpal
And why is that although?
Roxanne Varza
The federal government, I believe, they’ve actually gone out and tried to work on both implementing insurance policies that will encourage individuals to put money into early stage, whether or not it’s by way of tax breaks, and different issues like that. These are newer. However he is truly gone out and basically gathered up the capital wanted for a few of these late stage funding initiatives. So I might say these are most likely the 2 greatest ones. However then there have additionally been little changes to type of labor regulation and issues like that, that we talked about earlier, which have simply type of cleaned issues up fairly a bit. So I might say simply throughout the board, we have simply felt issues at all times going ahead, by no means going backwards, which had undoubtedly been the case beforehand.
Arjun Kharpal
That funding hole with the U.S. does nonetheless stay not simply right here in France, this can be a broader European problem as effectively. The place do you see this kind of subsequent steps required to shut that hole additional?
Roxanne Varza
Oh, wow, that is a extremely good query. So I do suppose we nonetheless have late stage funding points. I imply, once we’re not on the quantities, and even the variety of rounds that we must be perhaps even close to constructing these firms. So I might say late stage remains to be a giant factor. However I believe the true piece that we have now to crack in Europe, throughout the board is exits. And I am certain you have heard this many occasions earlier than. However I believe we are able to undoubtedly do so much to encourage extra of an acquisition tradition in Europe with our European corporates, which appear fairly absent, when you evaluate with all of the Individuals that come over and need to purchase firms. The IPO market is admittedly the place I do not know the way you repair
Arjun Kharpal
I used to be on the roof of the London Inventory Trade. When was this? Final week? … However it was the IPO of an organization known as Raspberry Pi, the computing startup that is been round for you realize, I believe, greater than a decade now. And there was massive fanfare, confetti cannons and plenty of noise for an IPO I believe that valued the corporate, simply over about $500 million. And I believe that basically underscores the problems with the market in the meanwhile or the issues concerning the market that even for such a small, or comparatively small IPO within the tech world, there was quite a lot of pleasure, as a result of it simply hasn’t been these exits on the IPO entrance. And there is, I believe in London specifically, there’s a lot of points round issues like founder shares, and twin class share buildings, and all of those varied issues which should be reformed and entry to a few of these startups within the earliest phases from pension funds and different areas. Are these related points prevalent right here in France?
Roxanne Varza
100%. And I might say most likely we even have simply, how can I say this? The market simply does not exist. So I believe on the subject of itemizing a expertise firm, individuals simply routinely assume I imply, we have now had some right here, I should not say we’ve not as a result of just a few years in the past, we had fairly just a few, two or three. However I believe at present simply anyone who needs to go public simply won’t take a look at this market, given what the monitor file that we have had.
Arjun Kharpal
And it appears like a pivotal time as a result of when you’ve acquired firms like Mistral elevating these sums at astronomical valuations, considering, even 2, 3, 4 years’ time, what they will be valued at, the market does not exist for them to go on an IPO of perhaps $100 billion valuation, probably in just a few years … The opposite level you introduced up was the M&A facet of issues. So European corporates not as lively when it comes to shopping for or buying expertise firms?
Roxanne Varza
Sure. And I believe I imply, I can actually converse to the French market after I say that, I do not know if it is the case throughout Europe, however it’s a feeling that I’ve. I imply, at Station F we have now a ton of early stage firms. And we have got all of the American corp dev groups that come present up right here. And we have had only a few of their French counterparts. And I believe it simply factors to the truth that culturally, they’re most likely much less aggressive in that area. In some instances, they do not even have corp dev groups. So I believe that is undoubtedly one thing that we are able to work on constructing.
Tom Chitty
Simply to deliver it again to the kind of what we talked about proper on the high with the place Paris and France is as a tech hub. What do you see is the long run for Station F and are you centered on type of what’s taking place elsewhere and ensuring you are still main in these areas? Or do you very a lot take a look at your self and simply fear about you? How do you see the following kind of couple of years panning out?
Roxanne Varza
Nicely, as I discussed, we have now this looming election, so ask me once more in just a few weeks. I believe it is a steadiness, as a result of we undoubtedly look overseas and we get impressed by quite a lot of what’s taking place elsewhere. And we attempt to generally take a look at these concepts and do they work domestically. However Station F was truly actually constructed for native demand, native wants. So lots of people have requested us, you realize, did you basically minimize and paste one thing that exists elsewhere? Completely not. We requested all of the entrepreneurs round us basically, not simply entrepreneurs, however everybody in our ecosystem, what works effectively? What’s wanted? The place do you will have difficulties? And a number of the stuff we have constructed you’d by no means see it exterior of France.
Arjun Kharpal
Has the profile of startups in right here modified as tech traits have modified, whether or not it is the crypto increase into the AI increase?
Roxanne Varza
Excellent query. Yeah, we truly refresh every thing on a yearly foundation. So two years in the past, crypto, we launched our crypto Web3, program. Final yr, we did quantum computing, two AI packages, I believe this yr, we’ll proceed to see AI. I am hoping we are able to enhance local weather tech a bit extra. I believe that is one other place the place Europe actually has a risk to shine. However what have I seen when it comes to type of evolution of entrepreneurs? It was once quite a lot of first time entrepreneurs, very younger, recent out of faculty. Immediately, we’re seeing increasingly repeat entrepreneurs. I believe over 50% of the entrepreneurs we have now on campus have already created a enterprise and I believe it factors to the mature maturity of our ecosystem,
Arjun Kharpal
And also you’re constructing a resort.
Roxanne Varza
We launched housing in 2019. So we have now 600 folks that reside in our housing element. And we’re type of ending that we have now a restaurant there, we’ll have a sports activities facility. So there’s another issues that we have now on website, it is about quarter-hour away. Later this yr, we’re launching, it is proper exterior the constructing however it’s basically 12 areas that can full the provides that we have now for entrepreneurs in order that they wished extra more healthy meals choices, bike restore, smartphone restore, podcast studio. So these sorts of companies shall be accessible subsequent to us and the resort after all in two-to-four years.
Tom Chitty
Implausible. Nicely that’s all we have now time for however we have now after all acquired to do stat of the week. Have you ever been occupied with it?
Arjun Kharpal
So that’s the stat of the week. $2.29 billion. Any guesses?
Tom Chitty
The worth of France’s AI market in 2025 projected.
Arjun Kharpal
On the right-ish tracks however no cigar.
Roxanne Varza
Quantity invested in AI for the reason that starting of the yr?
Arjun Kharpal
Shut. I am going to do yet one more spherical of guesses.
Roxanne Varza
It could actually’t be how a lot we raised as a world quantity for the primary half of the yr?
Arjun Kharpal
You are knocking on the door. I am going to give this one to Roxanne, as a result of she was tremendous shut. So it was the quantity French generative AI startups have raised to-date …In order that’s fairly astronomical. Just a few different enjoyable stats. So the highest 5 cities for generative AI startup creation throughout the area, London primary, 27% of GenAI startups from London. Tel Aviv 13%, Berlin 12%, Paris 10% and Amsterdam 5%. Despite the fact that Paris is fourth when it comes to GenAI startup creation, it has the best ranges of funding due to a few of these aforementioned firms there.
Tom Chitty
Okay. That’s all we have now time for. If you want to observe and subscribe to the present, you possibly can. And you too can charge the podcast which might be nice, 5 stars if you would like. Thanks, Arjun.
Arjun Kharpal
Thanks, Tom.
Tom Chitty,
Thanks, Roxanne.
Roxanne Varza
Thanks.
Tom Chitty
We’ll be again subsequent week for an additional episode of Past the Valley. Goodbye.
